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Nov 20, 2014, 01:55 PM // 13:55
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#1 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: In Z-Way We Trust.
Guild: [PhD]-[ァアァ]-[pupu]
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Z-Way | Z-Merc Edition | (Update 3.0)
VERY SPECIAL NOTE : due too the inevitable closure of GWG, this thread can continued to be followed on :
https://www.guildwarslegacy.com/showthread.php?tid=45 Special thanks too Joris for making this thread on the gwpvx. http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Z-Way SPECIAL NOTE : First of all I want too thank everyone that have tried my team-build, and to my surprise it even received a 5/5 star rating! I really never expected any of this too become so popular and even helpful for so many people. It makes me proud too hear the stories of people that were able to get their VQ title done, have been able to clear really hard content like DoA and UW which they never thought to be possible, or even dealing with the strongest of the strongest. Thank You! for you're continious support and positive feedback, its beyond my expectations how many people it has been able too help in their way of playing the game  __________________________________________________ ..:: Intro ::.. Hello everyone, i'v been thinking for quite a while to do this so im finally posting my creation in this section of guru. This team may not be as fast as some hero setups designed for specific zones, but can complete 90% of the game by shutting down enemys and controlling any fight which ensures always a win. A great resource to fill up alot of things in you're HoM, and being able to run (buildwise) anything you want too play yourself. ..:: Index ::.. 1: Why? 2: Build Breakdown. 2.1 : Z-Way 2.2 : Z-Merc 2.3 : Dps/Healer Player Team 3 : Player Healer Templates 4 : Gear Breakdown. 5 : Useage. 6 : Verdict. __________________________________________________ 1 | ..:: Why? ::.. Q: Why should I run Z-Way? A: Z-Way is mainly designed due too this games AI, and abusing the AI in the most beneficial way. These statements below from the Official GW Wiki states in short what heroes and capable of doing, and how they function. That information is the foundation this team is build on. "Heroes can detect enemy skill activation, and will only use interrupts which are appropriate to the skill type. They have no reaction time; their interrupts are never late." - GWWiki. "Heroes are like "toddlers": give them skills that are effectively impossible to use incorrectly, or skills that focus on a single target without conditional secondary effects. While they can "auto-pilot" their way through enemies with the correct skills, they do so less effectively than a human team might. When using heroes, calling targets and directing them will always increase their use." - GWWiki This means that the skills on their bar are "toddler" skills, they cant go wrong, always will be used at full potentional, and they will never fail when used. I'v tested most of this myself too make sure not a single skill was mis-used or even not at all. Q: Why did you chose to make a full Mesmer Team, there are also other teams that can do the trick? A: My intention of making Z-Way was being able to draw and engage any fight which I would have control over any given situation, in any area where I would put my foot on, and especially prolonged battles like at Boss fights. As how the AI works, and how Hard Mode gives a huge disadvantage towards any form of damage that is elemental of physical, you will notice that all sources of damage will be armor ignoring. (Except Icy Veins) That being said, Mesmer (Armor-Ignoring) AoE Damage is also just stupidly overpowered, just the sheer damage of these skills is what barely any other profession can upkeep at the many diffrent enemies you will face, only their health will determine how long they stay alive, it does not matter if their armor is 60 or 220. This also means this Team is designed to be as "User-Friendly" as possible, in the way of only having to do a single minor skill adjustment too suit your needs if necessary (see optionals below). You notice that many of these skills towards any enemy require an Action; Spell Use, Skill Use, or Physical Attacks. Once an enemy engages combat they will stay in combat mode untill either you die or they die, its a permanent state of the AI being engaged in spellcasting or attacking. If the enemy AI is shut down so that they wont cast spells, or fail at doing so They will automaticly start attacking with their weapon, means the Ineptitude Mesmers take care of not only Melee, but also on Caster enemys. Mesmers quite frankly don't use their skills too Damage, no. Mesmers use their skills too interfere with Attacks, and Spellcasting, the side effect of their interrupts is the Damage, but never is their primairy intent of ''doing damage''. You will sometimes notices that things either explode right infront you're eyes, and sometimes (observed sometimes vs Melee) it will take a few seconds longer then expected. Q: Why did you choose Elementist over Necromancers as optional Mesmers? A: For my feeling, Ele's will conquer Necro's in situations where Soul Reaping cant keep up with the high energy demand those build take, they will simply run themselves out of energy by spamming Wastrel's Demise/Worry if there are not enough things dying. There are times that a necromancer isen't able too keep up its spell casting vs various waves of enemies (May it be Patrols, or actual Waves) due the fact it only can gain 48-54 energy from Soul Reaping every 15 seconds. It may seem much, but its only 4-5 spell-casts away from being in a Downtime before being able too regain energy from things dying. My priority is to control any fight and being able to upkeep their own energy for that time being. The only sacrifice it made for the Elementist, is the Elite Skill, but honestly E-Surge and/or Panic just is a waste of elite when it can only run with 12 Domination Magic on Necromancers. And with Ether Renewal it sacrifices the (Mesmer) Elite for something more useful. Very heavy spam skills like Wastrel's Demise/Worry, and a Hex Removal or Emphaty, without going out of energy, EVER. I'v been in plenty of situations that even normal Mesmers and Necromancers run dry on energy in very prolonged fights, while the Elementist was being able too upkeep 90 to 100% of its energy during the entire encounter. Necro's are good, just not in this setup as Damage, but only for Healing, period. Q: So have you actually done any area's of what you claim it can do? A: Yes, iv done every single dungeon on HM, Winds of Change, War in Kryta, FoW, DoA, UW, AFK Glints, AFK Mallyx, and even AFK'd my own Legendary Survivor title, all thanks to Z-Way. There are some screenshots throughout the thread of stuff accomplished, also the many positive reactions from people telling how they did things they weren't succesful in before! __________________________________________________ Z-Way can take on ALL: HM Dungeons HM 6-8 Party Vanquishing HM 6-8 Party Missions HM Fissure of Woe HM War in Kryta HM Winds of Change HM World Bosses HM Urgoz HM The Deep NM Domain of Anguish (HM needs cons & caution) NM Underworld (HM needs cons & caution) AFK Zos Shivros Channel (HM) AFK Glints Challenge (NM) AFK Mallyx Citadel (NM / Gem Farm) AFK Gate of Madness L-Survivor (HM) 100k Exp/Hour AFK Abbadons Gate L-Survivor (HM) 87k Exp/Hour - 2 Ineptitude, 1 ST, 1 IV Without requiring consets, or minimal to none adjustments in setup. Conset just to speed things up by Spell Recharge/Casting, or Critical Immunity, but as said it can do without in any situation. (except UW HM and DoA HM) You can AFK hard fights like Duncan, Rotwing, Fendi etc and observe how they do all the work, just for fun. __________________________________________________ 2 | ..:: Build Breakdown ::.. 2.1 | ..:: Z-Way ::.. Requirement : PLAYER HEALER (Dervish, Monk, Ritualist, Necro, Elementist) The build includes the following proffessions : 1x Ritualist. 1x Necromancer. 2x Elementist. 3x Mesmer. Build Codes : ST <> OAWkIIDCITyD206FOhmWTkrzc5D Resto <> OAhiYwhMBAUVNMFNN5INxJOOBA ER 1 <> OgVCIMzTtY6lDuA3UAAAgWA ER 2 <> OgVCIMzStM95wFIDAAAQLA Inepti 1 <> OQREAXwTeG9CgAyBln1DkBs8ZHA Inepti 2 <> OQhkAgB8gGK0LACIJQeWPQGwy3FD Panic <> OQBDAowjO0gpXOAAY6yALfAA Team Setup :  Optional Skill slots : Necro - Icy Veins, Reaper's Mark. Ether Renewal - Shatter Delusion, Emphaty, Shatter Hex, Unnatural Signet, Spirit Pain, Complicate. Panic - Power Spike, Spirit Pain, Flesh of My Flesh (2 Restoration), Enfeebling Blood (6 Curses), Fallback / Stand You're Ground / Never Give Up / Can't Touch This / Never Surrender (8 Command), Edge of Extinction (8 Beast Mastery). (Atleast 1x Power Spike or Spirit Pain before taking one of the other Optional Skills : Flesh of my Flesh, Edge of Exctinction, ''Stand Your Ground!'', ''Fallback!'', ''Never Give Up!'', ''Can't Touch This!'', ''Never Surrender!'' @ Panic / Esurge __________________________________________________ 2.2 ..:: Z-Merc Edition ::.. NOTE : This is for Mercenary users ONLY !! Requirement : PLAYER HEALER Dervish, Monk, Ritualist, Necro, Elementist) The build includes the following proffessions : 1x Ritualist 1x Necromancer 5x Mesmer Build Codes : ST <> OAWkIIDCITyD206FOhmWTkrzc5D Resto <> OAhiYwhMBAUVNMFNN5INxJOOBA Inep1 <> OQREAXwTeG9CgAyBln1DkBs8ZHA Inep2 <> OQhkAgB8gGK0LACIJQeWPQGwy3FD Panic <> OQhkAgC8gGKDNY6lDAAmuMwyHAA ES 1 <> OQBDAowjOngpXOAAY6yALfAA ES 2 <> OQhkAgC8gGKzJY6lDAAmuMwy/iB Merc Team Setup :  Optional Skill slots : Necro - Icy Veins, Reaper's Mark. Esurge - Power Spike, Spirit Pain, Flesh of My Flesh (2 Restoration), Fallback / Stand You're Ground / Never Give Up / Can't Touch This / Never Surrender (8 Command), Edge of Extinction (8 Beast Mastery). Panic - Power Spike, Spirit Pain, Flesh of My Flesh (2 Restoration), Fallback / Stand You're Ground / Never Give Up / Can't Touch This / Never Surrender (8 Command), Edge of Extinction (8 Beast Mastery). (Atleast 1x Power Spike or Spirit Pain before taking one of the other Optional Skills : Flesh of my Flesh, Edge of Exctinction, ''Stand Your Ground!'', ''Fallback!'', ''Never Give Up!'', ''Can't Touch This!'', ''Never Surrender!'' @ Panic / Esurge) __________________________________________________ 2.3 | ..:: Player DPS / HEALER Team Setup ::.. Requirement : PLAYER DPS or HEALER - Melee DPS "Save Yourselves!" - Ranged/Caster "Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom Note : Viable too use as player DPS or Healer, the Infuse acts as a second (or third) healer/protector too make this team even more solid, and capable of handling extreme pressure Note 2 : You can trade in 1 Ineptitude Mesmer for an additional Esurge Mesmer if preferred, especially when facing more Casters then Melee, and Vice Versa. Build Codes : ST <> OAWkIIDCITyD206FOhmWTkrzc5D Resto <> OAhiYwhMBAUVNMFNN5INxJOOBA Infuse <> OgNDwcb/O1CSS9QLeXnJBEaB Inep1 <> OQREAXwTeG9CgAyBln1DkBs8ZHA Inep2 <> OQhkAgB8gGK0LACIJQeWPQGwy3FD Panic <> OQhkAgC8gGKDNY6lDAAmuMwyHAA OPTIONAL HERO <> See Templates Above. DPS Player Setup (Heroes & Mercenaries Supported):  Optional Skill slots : Necro - Icy Veins, Reaper's Mark. Esurge - Power Spike, Spirit Pain. Flesh of My Flesh (2 Restoration), Fallback / Stand You're Ground / Never Give Up / Can't Touch This / Never Surrender(8 Command), Edge of Extinction (8 Beast Mastery). Panic - Power Spike, Spirit Pain. Flesh of My Flesh (2 Restoration), Fallback / Stand You're Ground / Never Give Up / Can't Touch This / Never Surrender(8 Command), Edge of Extinction (8 Beast Mastery). Ether Renewal - Shatter Delusion, Emphaty, Shatter Hex, Unnatural Signet, Spirit Pain, Complicate. (Atleast 1x Power Spike or Spirit Pain before taking one of the other Optional Skills : Flesh of my Flesh, Edge of Exctinction, ''Stand Your Ground!'', ''Fallback!'', ''Never Give Up!'', ''Can't Touch This!'', ''Never Surrender!'' @ Panic / Esurge) __________________________________________________ 3 | ..:: Player Healer Template Codes ::.. If you have problems comming up with a decent build for player healing, then this might help you out on what too run. Monk 16 Divine Favor (+3 Rune head) 13 Healing Prayers (+1 Rune) (40/40 Divine + Heal set) Template code : OwAS0YITMENgbEXEdRAAAAAA  Optional skills : Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom, Selfless Spirit, ''By Urals Hammer!'', Air of Superiority, Pain Inverter, Summon Ruby Djinn, Summon Naga, Summon Mursaat, Summon Ice Imp, ''I Am Unstoppable!'', Cure Hex, Seed of Life, Signet of Rejuvenation. __________________________________________________ Dervish 16 Wind Prayers (+3 Rune head) 13 Mysticism (+1 Rune) (10/10 Wand + 10/10 offhand - triggers global spells / wind prayers / mysticism) Template code : OgCioys8sdnv537L+l+CAAAA  Optional skills : Optional skills : Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom, ''By Urals Hammer!'', Air of Superiority, Pain Inverter, Summon Ruby Djinn, ''I Am Unstoppable!'', Eternal Aura, Lyssa's Haste, __________________________________________________ Ritualist 15 Restoration Magic (+2 Rune head) 11 Spawning Power (+1 Rune) 10 Channeling Magic (+2 Rune) (40/40 Resto Set, or 10/10 wand + 20/20 offhand) Template code : OACjEyiIpOAAm5wcyJNBAAAAAA  Optional skills : (Elite) Signet of Spirits, (Elite) Xinrae's Weapon, (Elite) Spirit Light Weapon, (Elite) Echo, (Elite) Expel Hexes, (Elite) Emphatic Removal, (Elite) Unyielding Aura, Vengeful Weapon, Spirit Transfer, Soothing Memories,, Recupperation, Recovery, Weapon of Warding, Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom, ''By Urals Hammer!'', Air of Superiority, Pain Inverter, Summon Ruby Djinn, ''I Am Unstoppable!'' __________________________________________________ Elementist / Monk ATTENTION : replace Vigorous Spirit for the PvE Skill : Elemental Lord 16 Energy Storage (+3 Rune head) (Maintain Life Attunement, Aura of Restoration, Elemental Lord & Ether Renewal on yourself all the time) (+20% Ench Energy Storage Staff) Template code : OgNDwcrPO1CaBJpeoF9H0DAA  Optional skills : Spirit Bond, Aegis, Heal Party, Cure Hex, Shield of Absorbtion, Life Bond, Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom, ''By Urals Hammer!'', Air of Superiority, Pain Inverter, Summon Ruby Djinn, ''I Am Unstoppable!'' __________________________________________________ Necromancer / Monk 16 Soul Reaping (+3 Rune head) (+20% Ench Prot Staff) Template code : OANCY8zDAoqWP0i31ACAAAA  Optional skills : (Elite) Restore Conditions, (Elite) Life Sheath, (Elite) Reaper's Mark, (Elite) Unyielding Aura, (Elite) Air of Enchantments, (Elite) Aura of Faith, (Elite) Emphatic Removal, (Elite) Grenths Balance, (Elite) Divert Hexes, Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom, ''By Urals Hammer!'', Air of Superiority, Pain Inverter, Summon Ruby Djinn, ''I Am Unstoppable!'' __________________________________________________ Necro / Ritualist 16 Soul Reaping (+3 Rune head) (40/40 Restoration Set) Template code : OAhiYwh8AAqqDzJn0EAAAAAA  Optional skills : Xinrae's Weapon, (Elite) Spirit Light Weapon, (Elite) Icy Veins, (Elite) Reaper's Mark, (Elite) Grenths Balance, (Elite) Blood Ritual , (Elite) Spoil Victor, Spirit Transfer, Recovery, Recupperation, Vengeful Weapon, Soothing Memories, Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom, ''By Urals Hammer!'', Air of Superiority, Pain Inverter, Summon Ruby Djinn, ''I Am Unstoppable!'' __________________________________________________ >>>>> I'm not showing player dps builds that everyone is capable of making themselves. <<<<< __________________________________________________ 4 | ..:: Gear Breakdown ::.. Gear, its half the battle. However, they dont require alot of things to function good. Every hero has Runes and Insignia's placed on indentical places as the others. Here is how it looks like, from top to bottom. ~Armor~ Head: +3 Communing, +3 Domination, +3 Illusion, +3 Energy Storage, +2 Soul Reaping. Chest : Rune of Vitae, Blessed Insignia. Hands : Rune of Minor/Major/Sup Health, Blessed Insignia Legs : Rune of Attunement, Blessed Insignia Feet : Rune of Attunement, Blessed Insignia NOTE : If NOT taking an E/Mo reguarly in this team, consider changing their Blessed Insignia's, for their Highest Armor Insignia linked too their Profession /Global. ~Weaponry~ (Note - by proffession) ST : 20/20/20 +1/20% Spawning Power Staff <or> +5e +30hp Spear & 20%HCT +1 20% Spawning Power Offhand or +30hp +10AL vs xx Shield. IV : 20/20/20 +1/20% Restoration Staff <or> +5e +30hp Spear & 20%HCT +1 20% Restoration Offhand or +30hp +10AL vs xx Shield. ER1&2 : 20/20/20 +20% Enchanting Domination Staff <or> +5e +20% Ench Spear & 20% HCT +1 20% Domination Offhand or or +30hp +10AL vs xx Shield. ES1/2/3 : 20/20/20 +1/20% Domination Staff <or> +5e +30hp Spear & 20%HCT +1 20% Domination Offhand or +30hp +10AL vs xx Shield. Inep1/2 : 20/20/20 +1/20% Illusion Staff <or> +5e +30hp Spear & 20%HCT +1 20% Illusion Offhand or +30hp +10AL vs xx Shield. Optionals Hero : Emo 20/20/20 +20% Ench Protection Staff <or> +5e +20% Ench Spear & 20%HSR +1 20% Protection Offhand or +30hp +10AL vs xx Shield. (Spear/Offhand/Shield = Required for The Deep, and optional for negiating Chaos Storm, Frustration, Backfire in regular area's). These are the ideal weaponry and runes for you're heroes used for this team setup. However, if you are LOW on cash, just a +3 rune on the head, and a green staff takes care of normal mode and hard mode pretty easily. With the exception of hard area's, obviously due to lack of stats. __________________________________________________ 5 | ..:: Useage ::.. As you noticed, this team is full of low armor casters, with no minions, melee, or spirits to back you up, you will take the full force of you're enemies. This is a problem for alot of people, unless you do it right. A way to prevent your party from taking excessive amounts of damage you could place you're Hero's like this.  The trick of staying alive well, is having your ST(1) and IV(2) stand across eachother with some distance in between (area/earshot), Having Hero 3 set on Fight will cause him to run in first if you Ctrl+Space an enemy making them ideal tank(s), and diverting dangerous spells that may leak through away from your party. Its also very recommended too Keybind the first 3 or 4 skills on the Ritualist Bar, so you're just one push of a button away from placing Spirits the moment you desire. I have mine keybinded like this (config yourself for you're own convenience) Numpad 1 : Soul Twisting Numpad 2 : Shelter Numpad 3 : Displacement __________________________________________________ 6 | ..:: Verdict ::.. It has advanced uses for Perma Tanks that want to clear DoA, FoW, or Urgoz in a similar style like the Speedclearers do. It allows hero spiking when you need it, non scatter, and speeds up the process, make sure too Disable Healing Spells (Not Spirits / Protective Was Kaolai while ur Perma Tanking) so your healer wont run towards you're balled foes trying to heal you, and thus stealing aggro -ADVANCED USERS ONLY- But best of all the team is very beginner friendly and will allow you right off the bat to do vanquishing and dungeons. This 8 man team is also is versatile enough to be able to split into two 4 man teams for certain missions or tactics (Thunderhead Keep, Four Horseman, Eternal Grove, etc..) I hope you guys enjoy this team guide and helps you smoothen Hard Mode to EZ Mode. **This thread also serves as a place for discussion, and too share you're experience!** __________________________________________________ Also check out my fun hero-stacks! : http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/z...t10538666.html And check out my FREE Rent-A-Hero service! : http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/r...18#post5847818 Z Last edited by Zephyr of Light; Jun 17, 2016 at 11:20 AM // 11:20.. Reason: update 3.0 |
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Nov 20, 2014, 03:11 PM // 15:11
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#2 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Nov 2011
Guild: [Last]
Profession: R/
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Sounds interesting. I was recently using something similar (without a second Ether Spammer and Ineptitude User though). Will test and see how it works out.
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Nov 20, 2014, 03:18 PM // 15:18
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#3 | |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Sep 2005
Guild: ----
Profession: Mo/W
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Thanks for taking the time to post your build.
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If you are open to suggestions, let me point out some possible improvements. The illusion mesmers have 3 energy management skills while the skill bar contains only one or two 10 energy skills, and includes 3 signets. Also, waste not want not is not one of your emanagement skills, while it is definitely one of the better ones out there. The two eles are a bit problematic because they are very weak mesmers. You would be better off letting them be necros if you want secondary mesmers so badly. Soul reaping + signet of lost souls should give you the needed energy and frees your elite. On your ST, I'd drop displacement and spirit's gift. Displacement eats your charges of soul twisting like crazy, which should be reserved for the more important shelter. Spirit's gift is a poor skill for a backline character as it won't be party healing much. Replace it with vital weapon which is a more-or-less compulsory skill for Soul Twisters, especially with caster heavy teams. |
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Nov 20, 2014, 04:24 PM // 16:24
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#4 | |||
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: In Z-Way We Trust.
Guild: [PhD]-[ァアァ]-[pupu]
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Quote:
Because it only has 2 or 3 offensive skills, these will be used everytime they refresh cooldown which burns energy. Signets and Pdrain will benefit from recharge aswell, which this mechanic is made for : ''Heroes can detect enemy skill activation, and will only use interrupts which are appropriate to the skill type. They have no reaction time; their interrupts are never late.'' - gwwiki Quote:
Thats all good but only functions if stuff around them dies, at long boss fights stuff dont always die if there are any near it in the first place (duncan?). And still will have 12 domination, just like my ele's. However ele's on the other hand are not bound to soul reaping and have infinite energy by themself due just two enchants, that always get recast emidiatly when cooldown wears off. Quote:
The more health you get, the more damage you take before Shelter cuts the maximum of 10%. Spirits Gift is indeed not in all situations noticeable present, but sometimes you dont have to flag at all or are within the ''area'' range. Then it starts to do party-wide heals, and condition removal while shes just spamming prots. |
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Nov 20, 2014, 09:09 PM // 21:09
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#5 |
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Grotto Attendant
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Canada
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I like it. As someone who mains monk I'm always on the lookout of hero builds that synergize well with a monk player. Will give it a try.
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Nov 21, 2014, 12:25 AM // 00:25
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#6 | |
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Tea Powered
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Profession: N/
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Quote:
If the player is meant to be a healing profession (i.e. a Monk) then why does it have a N/Rt healer? With three single target heals? Surely a SoS Rit with MBAS and Spirit Light would be sufficient? I'm sure the player can plug the gaps. Ok, you'd have to switch Razah back to a Rt/X, but do you really need two Ineptitude guys? |
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Nov 21, 2014, 07:07 AM // 07:07
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#7 | ||||||
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Academy Page
Join Date: Sep 2005
Guild: ----
Profession: Mo/W
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Meh you force me to provide a long response
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By using so much energy management and so few offensive skills, you are not getting the most out of your mesmers. Quote:
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Understand that Ether renewal only really works on a prot ele with skills like spirit bond, prot spirit, infuse, and other short cooldown 10 energy skills. Your ele/mesmer does not possess enough spammable high energy skills to justify Ether Renewal. Quote:
 If you want to bring ether renewal specifically for a boss fight, because the situation calls for it, then do it by all means. For general purposes though, ether renewal is wasteful on that skill bar. Quote:
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...yet you recommend +60 HP staves and survivor insignias instead of +armor items and +armor insignias? In sum, your arguments don't hold up in the slightest. Your failure to realize that fast casting does not affect signets and lack of WNWN shows you are not familiar with mesmers. l2p 
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Nov 21, 2014, 11:18 AM // 11:18
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#8 | ||
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: In Z-Way We Trust.
Guild: [PhD]-[ァアァ]-[pupu]
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First of all, i appreciate you for taking time to responde in my thread to give (positive?) feedback.
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Therefore, ER is always a steady energy management when in some situations it simply means your necro runs out of energy. And therefore, does not require you to change proffessions unless you just want to have a necro for whatever legitimate reason you think is viable. Quote:
The +60hp staff and hp combo on chest is to migitate the loss of hp due to superiour runes, as Shelter is standard not cast pre-fights by hero AI results in you taking damage before Shelter gets put up. Having only like 415hp then will probably two shot you in bad scenario's. Vital Weapon gets spammed, it gives you extra HP you dont need (with staffs) while the ST losing precious energy it needs to keep its spirits up, therefore a no-no and just waste of energy imo. Indeed, Signets do not benefit from FC recharge wise (assumed they did ggwp), but do benefit from Essence of Celerity. But WNWN is probably a matter of preferrace, and here is why. (hence ideal situation cast every CD + crude maths inc) Ether Signet will in a 60 second time gain 34 energy, with a 15 second downtime to spare. WNWN will in a 60 second time gain 30 energy (5 casts in 60 sec with -24% recharge) the diffrence is minimal and is only a matter of 4 energy, in short fights. In a 3 minute time-span : Ether will gain 68 energy. WNWN will gain 90 energy. In the long run, WNWN may be better. So if you want to bash so hard on facts that WNWN is better, then feel free to do so. I just post my setup here, as what works for me during my time using this setup. I prefer Ether being used without requiring downsides, while WNWN requires no actions at all, which in PvE all that enemy's do are either auto-attack, or casting spells. So WNWN may not always gain the energy it should get shown in the ''perfect situation'' chart above. Thanks again for bringing up the point and pointing out on signet recharge, cheers. Last edited by Zephyr of Light; Nov 21, 2014 at 11:36 AM // 11:36.. |
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Nov 21, 2014, 01:48 PM // 13:48
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#9 | ||||
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Academy Page
Join Date: Sep 2005
Guild: ----
Profession: Mo/W
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I would call it constructive feedback as I am suggesting improvements.
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You could argue that you can interrupt it, but that is not always going to happen, especially in harder places. Quote:
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 Also, vital weapon leaves more room for bringing 40/40 equipment, which greatly increases your build's efficiency. Quote:
Drop Icy veins from the N/Rt and replace with BiP. (with either 8 or 13 blood) If you still want to bring icy veins, take it on a necro/mesmer who, aside from 16 soul reaping and signet of lost souls, is now backed by BiP as well. The BiP will fill any holes in your mesmers' energy needs as well as the Soul twister's. So you know, your build could have potential, but it is not optimized. |
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Nov 21, 2014, 02:28 PM // 14:28
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#10 | |||
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: In Z-Way We Trust.
Guild: [PhD]-[ァアァ]-[pupu]
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Quote:
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Aside of the danger that a healer may cut himself down to 1-33%hp is a factor why its not placed in its build. Quote:
Its flexible, without having to roll necromancer. Thanks for the constructive feedback and your time. Last edited by Zephyr of Light; Nov 22, 2014 at 01:08 AM // 01:08.. |
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Nov 21, 2014, 08:59 PM // 20:59
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#11 |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Belgium
Guild: Whats Going On [sup]
Profession: Mo/
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so what have we learned? mistrust opopie
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Nov 22, 2014, 08:45 AM // 08:45
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#12 | |||
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Academy Page
Join Date: Sep 2005
Guild: ----
Profession: Mo/W
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Quote:
Soulreaping cannot be removed and is not an elite. How much clearer does it need to be? The problem is you overpromoted those ele/mesmers in your original post, so now you can only be stubborn about them. Quote:
This is not GvG where everyone needs to be self sufficient, it's just PvE. BiP is like putting your heroes on steroids> it allows for more energy intensive skill bars and/or reduces the need for personal energy-management. In sum, greater offence. Quote:
At the end of the day you are still not using the most efficient setup. |
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Nov 22, 2014, 10:34 AM // 10:34
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#13 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: In Z-Way We Trust.
Guild: [PhD]-[ァアァ]-[pupu]
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I hope i'v given plenty of reasons of why this setup looks like it is and not like a necromancer team that has other benefits from using, that unfortunately just dont stack up against Ele's in this situation. Period.
Yeah, it does matter how you can arrange mesmer elites, they give you variation while keeping >16< in the attribute, and you want to run illusion or domination Necro's? Its always smart to give your healer a skill so he can Seppuku himself, the Guy that keeps ur party alive, great choice lol. Simply put, if you dont like this take a necro over ER and be inefficiënt. Run discord, SOS, panic, two heals and a sandwich for all i care. Discordway sounds more to your liking. Just dont get into an discussion if you cant give me a constructive way of improving this setup aside from yelling that Soul Reaping wins everything, that just wont do for me. This point of this setup is to faceroll pve without having to use diffrent builds, need of corpses, or other profession hero's. Thanks for your time. Last edited by Zephyr of Light; Nov 22, 2014 at 11:04 AM // 11:04.. |
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Nov 22, 2014, 01:37 PM // 13:37
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#14 | |||||
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Academy Page
Join Date: Sep 2005
Guild: ----
Profession: Mo/W
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Quote:
Quote:
I said it does not matter how you rearrange the mesmer elites, because it would not be necessary to rearrange them in the first place when using necros instead of eles. One or two necros can bring panic, allowing the mesmers to remain unchanged. Quote:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/d...t10533938.html http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/r...t10527352.html You need to stop talking when you have no clue about the subject Quote:
Since you have had problems understanding fastcasting before, maybe you should read the description of soulreaping next.  Quote:
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Nov 22, 2014, 02:39 PM // 14:39
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#15 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Nov 2011
Guild: [Last]
Profession: R/
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From what I gather, this build is designed to be a constant output of damage while keeping your casters safe, without relying on external factors. Soul Reaping is a great attribute that depends on actually face-rolling/deaths, thus it will underperform in situations on which said deaths don't occur as expected. Taking that into account, its clear why he proffered the ether eles over necro builds that don't synergize as well with the purpose of the team-build.
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Nov 22, 2014, 03:05 PM // 15:05
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#16 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: In Z-Way We Trust.
Guild: [PhD]-[ァアァ]-[pupu]
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Quote:
You're comparing apples with oranges of two whole diffrent teams. If you want nostalgia then keep your Rspike in HA not PvE Also here's a quote you made : "Pets and minions soak up most damage, and are also shielded by union, shelter and displacement" Aside of minions not being in Honor Ward most of the time, sharing ST Protection with minions is such a good synergy for your party, that it eats atleast 60% of your Shelter, Displacement, and Union. And why Blood of the Master with Death Nova lol. You have no idea of how contradicting this is. Same goes for that HB with class issue's when UA can give +69% Healing. Also let me sum up what my setup does. Two party healers Zero waste of protection Zero mob scatter from damage 1x AoE Weakness 2x Condition Removal 2x Hex Removal 2x AoE Blind 3x Ressurection 3x Skill Rupts 5x AoE Rupts 6x Melee Rupts 12x Spell Rupts 20x AoE Damage Skills Right, so besides that i do 90% AoE damage. We share diffrent views on what actually matters, you prefer damage over control of any enemy. Which in your case doesn't work in every single place. Last edited by Zephyr of Light; Nov 22, 2014 at 11:12 PM // 23:12.. |
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Nov 23, 2014, 12:48 PM // 12:48
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#17 | |||||
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Academy Page
Join Date: Sep 2005
Guild: ----
Profession: Mo/W
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Othienka, you kinda proved my point completely...
Like you say, this build is meant to steamroller pve and therefore soulreaping is ideal. However, you then say soulreaping (and, inherently, the 11 energy per 8 seconds from signet of lost souls) is more situational for this build than an enchantment with a 30 second cooldown, which can be stripped..? Need I say it again, ER takes up two elite slots which are better used for more offensive capabilities. I guess it can boil down to where you go. Easier places tend to have less enchantment removal, while harder places usually punish enchantment users more. At any rate, the dom skill bar proposed is not highly energy intensive; the ER ele/mesmers basically don't drop much below 90 energy, and they keep hitting the max of 100-odd energy when the enchantment is up. Such a filled energy pool may look nice, but it is kinda wasted potential. Ether renewal does have its place though, but that is with an ele/monk that makes use of skills that are truly energy demanding. Such an ele can spam big energy skills like spirit bond, prot spirit, infuse health, reverse hex and/or convert hexes. In this case Ether Renewal shines as such crazy amounts of energy production are necessary. ---------- Zephyr, it is difficult to reply to your last post, because it has been edited so many times lol. Fortunately, screencaps of no less than 5 different versions of your post have been saved. They can be found here:http://s2.postimg.org/ryqytkscp/zeph...rsions_1_5.jpg. This compels me to be courteous and provide a response to each edited version. Version 1: Quote:
Nevertheless, I will attempt to respond based on what I estimate is being said: The point of those links to other threads provided by myself were to show that a N/Rt BiP Healer is feasible. It was not the point to recieve your 100% objective comparison to those 8man builds from another thread. If you have an improvement suggestion for a build from another thread, you could post it there .This saves you derailing this discussion, which is about how redundant your ele/mesmers are. Version 2: Quote:
. A list of sorts has been added but it is unclear why. Something about rangers is said, although I have yet to see rangers mentioned in this thread.Version 3: Quote:
Something about ranger spike and heroes ascent is said. But, it is unclear what bearing it has on this discussion. Version 4: Quote:
Version 5: Quote:
However, the essence of the previous four versions remains even though they have no bearing on the discussion in this thread. By this stage the poster will have cooled down sufficiently to realize this mistake; that the link provided by myself was aimed at showing the N/Rt character of those builds and not at saying that the linked builds in their entirity are superior to this one (which is another discussion). However, the poster knows that the earlier versions of his post will have been read by others. Therefore, he does not correct his mistake and instead hopes that nobody draws attention to it. It is interesting to note that the tone is less angry in each version as he cools down. This can be seen in the purpose of the list which changes in the last version. Also, the kind request at the end is dropped. Other phrases are reworded to hide the earlier anger of being proven wrong. In sum, Zephyr, don't post when you are raging because you make even less sense, and don't derail the thread to hide your incompetence .
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Nov 23, 2014, 01:24 PM // 13:24
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#18 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: In Z-Way We Trust.
Guild: [PhD]-[ァアァ]-[pupu]
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Thanks for the Dr.Phil session, but if i need one it would get done by a Proffessional
I indeed had to recover myself in order to maintain the peace in this thread which you try to provoke. Besides that your last post looks like some documentairy of wild-life behaviour, when it has nothing to do with team compositions. You also feel the need to not keep things constructive, on point, or mannered. Calling out on my "incompetence", is a immature way of getting your point across that did not even gave value of your post by the slightest bit. So therefore sir, provide me with facts why necro does it all that much better. Or just stop flooding this thread with your nonsense, and be productive irl instead. Edit 1 : Blood of the Master and Death Nova, still no response of why synergizing that with an ST.
Last edited by Zephyr of Light; Nov 23, 2014 at 01:54 PM // 13:54.. |
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Nov 23, 2014, 04:07 PM // 16:07
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#19 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Jan 2014
Profession: R/Mo
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Wow very interesting, thanks for posting this! So can this build complete DoA hardmode? I am kinda looking for the ultimate build to end all builds that can clear ALL content hardmode, even if that means stacking 8 mesmers. I am very interested to try this build out, btw what is the absolute best player class for this? a healer? monk?
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Nov 23, 2014, 04:18 PM // 16:18
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#20 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: u know where my spot is !
Guild: Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer.
Profession: W/
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to be in many party with this hero build, all i can say is try it and you will see.
This team destroy pretty much anything ! |
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